Hopium | a16z Crypto, Kim Milosevich & Jeff Amico

[00:00] He was, yeah, no, great. Um... [00:03] He's not great. He... I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I mean... [00:09] But I will say that when I said [00:10] I was from Boyz Club. He warmed up a little bit. [00:13] Oh, nice. I love that. I love a little Boys Club warm-up. [00:30] Just Boys Club. Hi. Hey, Natasha. So what's Boys Club? Hi, Dina. Boys Club is a world. [00:40] Boys Go The World, we're building... [00:42] A government? An economy? LAUGHTER [00:46] And a business, what's the third? [00:51] Yeah, I think GDP. We're trying to design the GDP. There it is. There it is. Yes, if you're here, we're so excited to have you. We're the co-founders of Boys Club. Boys Club is a social DAO media company. [01:05] product studio. We're doing lots of things. We have this podcast. This is a great place to start. We have a newsletter that's really fun and totally unhinged that you must subscribe to. It's actually like a requirement because it's that good. It's that good. I don't write it, so I can say that. And what else do we have going on? We have some products coming out soon. Anything to add? [01:26] Any thoughts at all? Yeah, I mean, we do events. Events. We do events. We have a lot of fun at our events. So welcome. You found us. You're here. That's great.

[01:37] So on today's pod, we had on Kim Milosevic and Jeff Amico from A16Z Crypto. Kim Milosevic is the CMO at A16Z. Very cool. Previously, she was in comms at Coinbase. And Jeff Amico is a partner at A16Z, and he's the director of the crypto startup school. [02:01] which honestly sounds great. - It sounds really great. I was like, man, if this had been a year ago, I would have been like, excuse me, here's my application. - All in, all in, knocking on the door. They would not be able to get rid of us. So if you are a builder, if you're a founder, [02:16] Or if you're just like, [02:17] If you're not those things yet, but you... [02:21] maybe want to be one day. I think this is, um, [02:24] potentially an interesting outlet for folks. [02:28] not necessarily technical folks. Like that's a big part of sort of what they're doing is... [02:32] trying to figure out how they open up into new communities of builders, which I think is great. I love it. So give it a listen. They talk more in depth about it, which is great. Applications are due November 30th. So if you're listening to this, [02:46] Tick, tack. [02:46] Yeah, get to it. So that was a really fun conversation, especially in light of the past week. It was just like one of the things Jeff said that really stuck with me is – [02:56] he talked about just reading the applications and like what... [03:00] positivity and like the outlook that you have to have on the world to be an entrepreneur is that good things are going to happen. And that being like a really great...

[03:11] thing to do, like showing up to work and that's what he's doing right now being like really special. And that was a really helpful outlook for me. Um, so give that a listen. And then after that, we do a feelings check-in that's must required reading. It's just like, we, we felt we, we must, even though maybe, maybe people are sick of feeling I'm sick of feeling to be quite, I'm a little exhausted from feeling. Yeah. So, um, this, um, [03:35] But I don't know. It felt like... [03:38] It's the elephant in the room, right? It's the elephant in the room. Totally. We got to talk about it. And there are legitimately a lot of feelings around it. So anyway. Yeah, for sure. But feel free to fast forward. Yeah. If it's not, if you need some space from it. If you weren't feeling the feelings, skip past them. Just skip. Okay. And then we have a DAO check-in where we talk about Dina and I did some deep work. [04:01] last week. And so it was really fun and challenging. And we're getting to a roadmap for boys club that feels pretty good. It feels pretty good. So we talked through that and how you... [04:14] build upon a DAO, how things spin out of a DAO, how you send them off as they go to college, basically, and how you do that. [04:22] in a way that still feeds back to the community. So that was it. There's the episode. Shout out to our sponsor, Moonpay. Moonpay. Fast and easy. [04:32] - The fastest and easiest way to [04:36] Bye, Crypto. [04:37] Mm-hmm. [04:38] And put it in your wallet. [04:41] Put it in your non-custodial wallet. So we love MoonPay. They're great sponsors and great interface. Easy to use, fast, easy.

[04:50] Go check it out, MoonPay.com. [04:58] Okay, welcome Kim Milosevic and Jeff Amico to the Boys Club podcast. We're so excited to have you guys. Thanks for having us. I'm excited to be here. So we're pumped. We're actually going to buck the format. [05:12] We usually do something called Explain the Tweet, but regular listeners know that we'll be back next week. But this week we're just excited. At Boyz Club, we have a really deep passion for helping builders in the space. And I know that you folks do too. You have something called Crypto Startup School, which you started a couple years ago and are bringing back this year. We'd love to have you guys talk about it. Tell us why you're doing it. Kim, take it away. [05:42] first came up with this idea, I remember it very vividly. We were seeing a lot of pitches, a lot of great founders coming in and talking to us. And we were lamenting after one of the [05:57] honestly just kind of getting bad advice. Um, and we realized that there weren't a lot of great places for them to come to where, [06:04] There were good resources and experts to talk about. We like to call it the idea maze, like people who have gone through that idea maze and can help other founders go through the idea maze. [06:16] We're like, we need like a startup school for crypto. And we're like, why don't we do that? Like, we are in a great place to do that. And

[06:24] So we approached it kind of thinking of it as [06:26] There's Y Combinator obviously, and they have this incredibly established, great program [06:32] And we didn't need to try to replicate that. We weren't going to necessarily go through every detail of like, [06:37] the legal aspects of starting a startup and all of that. So we kind of thought of it more as a crypto finishing school, if you will. What are more of the specific types of [06:47] skills and [07:09] building in this community, it's a community. And how do community relations, how does that look differently than it does in [07:17] traditional or web to tech. And so that was a thought going into it. And we felt like we were in a good place to sort of assemble the best experts from across the, [07:25] the space. And I think we did a good job of doing that. And we went into it with the idea that we want to create something really special for this first cohort of builders. But then we also want to open source the materials so that everybody can learn from it. So, [07:43] The first cohort was about 40 people and we were overwhelmed. Like we thought, okay, we're going to put out this bad signal of like, we're going to do this crypto star school, but we honestly had no idea what kind of response we would get. And we were, we were overwhelmed. We got, I think over 1200 applicants.

[08:00] for the first crypto startup school, we only had 40 spots. So it was a tough process of going through that and narrowing it down. [08:09] we had a really big international response. So we had folks from Nigeria and Germany and you name it all across the a lot of folks from [08:18] Asia and wanting to come in. And so we put together, I think, a really great diverse group [08:24] And then assembled, you know, what we thought were great experts who can take everybody through. [08:30] these different things. We had Dan Bonet talking about cryptography, and we had Yuda Steiner talking about security. She was the sort of lead Ethereum Foundation security expert. So we put together this whole, how long was the first one, John? I think it was about an eight-week session. But the interesting thing was when we started it, [08:51] We started it, the thought this is going to be totally in person, and we're going to have this amazing group bonding, spending time with each other. In addition to the great lectures that we had, we also put together this great lecture. [09:04] group of mentors, investors, other builders in the space who could really work closely with the teams to help them along the way, answer questions and [09:13] kind of guide them through the process at the time i mean so this is a couple years ago the a16z crypto team was tiny right we were like i don't know six six or seven people or something at the time so we had to really rely on all of our friends out in the industry to kind of come in and help these builders which they were all thrilled to do but the idea was it started off in person so we did we started we did the first one in person

[09:38] And then we did the second one in person in this awesome space in San Francisco. And but very, very quickly, the pandemic was starting to happen and creeping in. And so what started off as in person? [09:51] then became partially remote. [09:53] That was the start of it. And so we hatched the idea in 2019. We made it happen in 2020. We had about 40 people and we had a really amazing group. [10:05] that went on to start a bunch of companies in the space that we know. So we had, help me remind me, Jeff, of all the different amazing founders. Yeah, so it's a long, long list, but just to give a few. So founders of Phantom, Flashbots, Goldfinch, Teller, some of the amazing companies that [10:26] I think our leaders in the industry today came out of that first program, which was great. Yeah. And they went on to go raise a bunch of money. So the idea of the first program, [10:33] The first CryptoStars goal was really more about learning, you know, giving them the skills they needed to go build [10:40] in crypto, [10:41] and surround them with all the resources and experts that they need to do that and help kind of build a community around it. So a lot of these folks were like they felt like they were kind of on their own. We had one person who ended up joining A16Z Crypto. [10:55] And he was saying how, you know, he was sort of at Stanford at the time, and he was just excited to be like part of something because he felt like he was sort of on his own into all of these at the time, what kind of felt like weird, obscure concepts. And like, this is a chance for people to really come together and find their people. So we put the videos out. They've gotten over, I think, 2 million views. Yeah.

[11:19] Now, a couple of years later, we felt like, OK, this might be a great time. [11:24] to get this started again, but not just in the way we did it before, but also turn it into a full accelerator so that we can work again with these founders, builders, really kind of early in the process and help guide them as much as we can, bring them and introduce them into the world. [11:43] community again, [11:45] and really get this going again. And I, since we did the first one, I constantly have people coming up to me and asking me like, Oh, I love those videos. When are you going to do it again? And so we're doing it again. Very exciting. Nice. Nice. That's so cool. Um, yeah, we're so happy to, when we saw that at launch, we were like, this is awesome. And it's great to see. And, um, so Jeff, I'm curious, um, from your perspective. So you joined in, um, from what I understand, [12:15] sort of part of the next cohort and relaunch of this program. I'm curious from your perspective with FreshEyes, like so much has changed in the landscape of crypto over the past two years. And so how has that sort of informed the curriculum and impacted what you guys are talking about and the people who are sort of teaching these different courses? [12:36] Yeah, so I think our overall thinking on the program still remains largely the same, which is that [12:42] We want to use it to onboard a great new set of founders into the space. [12:47] And so these might be folks who came from various backgrounds that didn't get discovered through the ordinary channels. Maybe they were at a great company already or maybe...

[12:55] They just weren't quite ready to take that next step and then start something new in Web3. [13:00] And so... [13:01] The program, like last time, is still designed around, you know, what are the resources and tools that teams need to kind of navigate that early terrain? [13:10] And the thinking really is it's hard to build any kind of startup, but it's doubly hard to build something in crypto. [13:18] In any kind of startup, you need to think about how do I find users and how do I find distribution and how do I manage my runway and all the typical stuff. Then in crypto, you have to do all of that as well. But you also layer on crypto. [13:32] how do I think about decentralization of my protocol? How do I think about [13:36] the legal and regulatory frameworks that are evolving and very confusing in this space. And so it's really meant to cater to teams that are looking to build something great in this space. [13:47] but don't quite know where to start, or maybe don't quite have the network or the resources. [13:52] Um, [13:53] And so we're really going to carry forward a lot of the great [13:55] foundations and concepts from the last program. So, you know, all of the educational pieces like we had last time. [14:01] We're going to really build out the mentorship network so all the founders will get paired up with [14:07] you know, folks in our portfolio who've already built great companies or experts across our network. [14:13] And really, again, it's meant to provide that set of tools and resources that, you know, a great new founder would need. [14:21] to build something in Web3. Cool. So I mean, a huge response last time. You said I think around 1,200 applicants, and then you narrowed it down to 40. So we have a ton of founders in our community

[14:34] a great talent pool of people who are thinking about what's next for them, especially in this space. And so I'm curious, maybe Kim, you can start off, but what are you guys looking for in applicants? What would be someone that you would be super excited about applying? Yeah, I can start and then I'll hand it over to you, Jeff. [14:51] I mean, I think similar to before, you know, we want them to have an idea of what they want to do. It doesn't have to be 100% fleshed out. So there's going to be a spectrum, there's going to be people that walk in with an idea and who may even be at the stage where they're still looking for a partner or co-founder. [15:09] So there could be a little matchmaking, which also existed before. And then also some that have a little bit more of a developed idea and they've started down that path a little bit, but it's still really early enough where they are looking for that guidance. Yeah. [15:24] Again, still kind of early stages of making their way through that idea maze. And I'd say like the... [15:31] the space has just overall expanded a lot since 2020, right? We're seeing new kinds of applications that didn't exist before, a lot particularly in the Web3 media space, which is one of the reasons we're actually hosting it in [15:46] I think there's just overall a great crypto community, web through community in LA, period. But then I think there's a lot of folks from kind of web to media creators, et cetera, who... [15:57] are just so enthusiastic about [16:00] and this has all been [16:02] very natural for them. It's just kind of made sense to them very intuitively. And so we want to capture some of those folks.

[16:09] coming into the space too. [16:11] Yeah, and I think that was a great kind of overview, I think, just in terms of the kind of stage. You know, as Ken mentioned, every, you know, founders from, you know, as early as we have an idea that we're interested in, or even we have a few ideas that, you know, think are compelling and, you know, [16:26] If we got selected for one of them, we would build them all the way through. We built a product. We even have some users. Maybe we even raised a small pre-seed or seed round. [16:36] This kind of program would still add a lot of value to folks like that. Again, it's all about the network that you develop. It's about the community of other great like minded founders you get to work with. [16:47] It's about working with our experts in the various areas. And so, [16:51] Everyone who's in that kind of range of just an idea, all the way through we have something early and it's starting to work, I think anyone in that range would. [16:59] That would be a great fit. [17:00] Nice. Well, man, what a great opportunity. I have kind of a left field question for you guys. Just really curious about your personal takes. We have like all sorts of builders in the boys club community. We have marketers, we have comms folks, we have like, you know, it's just, it really... [17:17] AND I THINK THAT'S A GOOD THING. [17:18] Yeah, it's a wide breadth coming from all types of different industries and verticals. We also do have engineering and product talent, but we do get this question a lot, which is like, okay, I'm a non-technical... [17:30] builder and [17:32] I love Web3. I love this space and I'm obsessed and I want to... [17:37] I want to do something here. I want to build here, but I don't like know

[17:41] what my access point is as a non-technical builder. And I'm just curious, like, I'm sure you guys encounter these folks, like, what would your advice be? I mean, beyond perhaps applying and doing some matchmaking, which sounds amazing. And like, honestly, I can't overstate how much of a value add that is to help matchmaking with technical, non-technical talent. But [18:04] Yeah, just curious your thoughts on that. [18:06] Yeah, maybe I could start. So I think we very much want to, I think those are the exact types of folks we do want to onboard into the space, frankly, and, you know, [18:15] Um, [18:17] I think we want folks who are taking a fresh look at these things. We want folks who maybe have experience in other domains. [18:23] whether it be creative domains, media, entertainments, [18:26] Um, [18:27] and who can kind of come at this from a fresh kind of perspective to think about, you know, how do we, [18:31] how do we actually market this and frame it in a way that's actually, you know, delightful to consumers and users? And so that's a really important perspective that maybe has been a little bit underdeveloped so far in Web3. And it's one that we really want to cultivate. And a program like this, I think, is a great opportunity to do that. And so, [18:49] You know, we talked a little bit before about the matchmaking component. [18:52] So, you know, we would very much encourage anyone who fits that kind of profile to apply to [18:59] describe what really kind of compels them about this industry. [19:04] It's always great when I'm reading the applications to understand, like, what is actually driving someone to build in this space. [19:10] And, you know, oftentimes those stories are compelling enough that, you know, it makes sense to work with them and to perhaps try to find them a great technical co-founder. And so, yeah.

[19:20] For anyone who kind of fits that mold, [19:22] please, please do apply. We would love to review your application. We'd love to meet with you. [19:27] And as we mentioned, it's possible that we can pair you up with a technical co-founder throughout the program. Yeah, I mean, I'd say like, you know, both as founders, but also just to build this entire space. Like for these companies to grow, we need all types of operators, right? And that's been a big focus for us just overall at A16Z Crypto is just really building that network. [19:50] to help our companies find that great talent that wants to come in and [19:55] who, by the way, despite what's going on this year, still are so thrilled and wanting to pour into this space. [20:04] Some of them I think are [20:06] frankly disenfranchised with Web2 or tired of it, and they're looking for that next new challenge. And so we really want to welcome all those folks in both [20:15] Whether it's pairing up with a tactical co-founder, but also just helping them find a great company within our portfolio or outside our portfolio to get in. We just want everybody in Web3. So in closing, we'd love to just hear from both of you about what you're sort of most excited about in this space. This can be protocols or companies or it can just generally be something culturally that's happening in Web3. [20:45] after the week that we've had. So we'd love some positive energy and some good vibes around what's happening.

[20:51] Yes. Yes. We need good news. Yeah. Well, I think when we first started doing this, the first one in 2020, I think that [21:00] it was still very much an infrastructure game, right? Everybody, it was still very much needing to be built out. We didn't have [21:08] very many developed blockchains, layer ones, very few layer twos. A lot of that infrastructure has come so far now. And so I think we're at that phase really where a lot of great applications can be built on top. [21:23] That's kind of the moment we've all been waiting for. And it's still, again, really early, as you guys know, but we're seeing a lot of really cool bright spots there. And I'm hoping to see a lot more of those come out of... [21:34] this next cohort where before, you know, frankly, some of these builders, they were [21:41] frustrated because they're like, well, we're still missing this. We're still missing that. A lot of those building blocks are there now. [21:47] So that's great. And so I'm excited to see more of the apps. And then, you know, selfishly, I'm a content person. And [21:55] we achieved so much with just getting that content out there. I mean, so many people who were coming from Web2, [22:03] um, who saw those videos that inspired them, help them understand what's going on. And I hope to do more of that with the new content that we generate. I love that. Jeff. [22:12] Yeah, I would just add, one of the most exciting things for me about this whole program has been, [22:18] actually getting to talk to founders and entrepreneurs who are applying and

[22:23] You just get so energized talking to them every day because you look on Twitter, you look on social media, everything is just doom and gloom these days. [22:31] you kind of switch over and talk to these founders who are applying to this program. [22:35] And it's just really invigorating. And many of them who are applying these days are very much in the industry for the right reasons, meaning... [22:43] They have some underlying principled reason for why they want to build something on this type of technology. [22:49] Maybe they came from a certain type of background. Maybe they had experience in other parts of the world, being disenfranchised or things along those lines. [22:58] And it kind of is a very refreshing kind of energy that counters a lot of what we've seen [23:04] over the course of the last few weeks and few months in the space. [23:07] We're really excited to work with those types of founders going forward. And I guess one last note is that there really are a lot of them out there. I think we've seen just a tidal wave of great founders applying for this program. [23:18] who kind of fit that mold and who are building for the right reasons. And so we're thrilled to work with them going forward. Oh, great. That's a great note to end on. I love, I love the optimism of an entrepreneur. [23:30] I love that. Well, thank you guys so much. Yeah. I'm sure, sure. You'll have a lot of interest from, from, from boys club members and listeners here. And yeah, I appreciate you guys taking the time and, and best of luck. Thanks guys. Thank you.

[23:48] . [23:49] Thank you. [23:50] Okay. It's a feelings check-in. [23:53] It's a feelings check-in and this is my fourth feelings check-in in four days. [24:01] I've had two at work and two with Worship. Oh, you have? Oh my God. Wow. That's nice. Did you create that space? I created the space. Yeah. Because damn good for you. [24:12] Thanks. [24:13] Um, yeah, we had a boys club feelings check in on Sunday. Um, and if you've been just asleep at the wheel, get on the internet in terms of crypto. Twitter.com. You might see some things. You might see some things you can't unsee. Um, [24:29] It's been a bad week. [24:32] I'm really torn. [24:34] as to whether people want to keep hearing about this or not. And we went back and forth on whether it was a feelings check-in, or a DAO update, or what we wanted to do here. And then I just thought, if I listen to this podcast every week, [24:48] I want to [24:49] know what they're feeling. [24:51] I'm listening to their feelings every week, and then they're not going to tell me about their feelings about dumpster fire that has been the last week. So we decided to talk it out. [25:00] On the air, on live. Live. [25:02] so who wants to go first do you have feelings [25:09] Yeah, I do. I have a lot of feelings. A lot of feelings. Um, [25:13] Okay, feeling number one is... [25:17] True heartbreak for the people who...

[25:22] were like affected who lost money and like the retail investors who [25:28] thought it was one thing and it was not at all. And... [25:32] Like... [25:34] I, [25:35] personally dodged a bullet, but like could have easily [25:39] Yeah. [25:40] been me because I was using some like [25:43] stablecoin staking bullshit and... [25:48] Like, it just... [25:50] putting trust into things that you shouldn't trust. [25:53] I'm... [25:54] Very savvy. I'm working this full time. I'm working this industry full time. Yeah. During the day and at night. And if I could, if it was that close for me, [26:03] than folks who are, who, [26:06] or casual investors who are just like trying to make a buck, like, [26:10] And not... [26:11] living and breathing on Twitter, then that's scary. That's scary that, that, [26:17] There was that much risk in it and it didn't [26:20] it didn't appear to be so. And so... [26:22] Um, real heartbreak there. The second big thing for me is, okay, there's two other things. I'm not going to like talk for 20 minutes about my feelings, which I could, but I, I will, I will. [26:30] I'll be short. The second thing is talent drain. [26:35] I think that... [26:37] there's a lot of... [26:41] the people who are sort of [26:44] who are... [26:45] ARN. [26:46] smart and sensitive and socially minded and like good people, [26:52] Um...

[26:54] the people that we need here the most are the ones that are probably looking at the space right now and being like, [26:59] This is not for me. This is a joke. Yeah. Yeah. [27:03] And I want nothing to do with it. [27:05] And so all those generous and well-intentioned and... [27:10] and [27:11] and [27:12] Kind people will not... [27:15] come and explore this world. And that's like, [27:18] That feels like... [27:21] that sets us back. [27:22] years and [27:24] I think they will come back, but like, I think there's just a lot of work has been undone. Yeah. And then I think the third thing on a personal level... [27:34] I'm very tired. [27:36] And I find I woke up this morning and... [27:40] I found it very hard to get out of bed and to deal with [27:43] my [27:45] back-to-back meetings at my day job, which is in Web3, and then thinking about the work for Boys Club. And I was like, man, I don't know if I can do it today. [27:52] And then... [27:54] I saw in my new Aritzia sweater that I bought, [27:57] And my theft, the theft tag was left on, you know, the thing that, what do you call that? The thing that they, the theft tag, she, a lady, a person left it on my sweater. A bitch. Straight up bitch left it on. I texted Natasha and I was like, I used some strong language. But a theft tag was left on my sweater, my new sweater that I bought for myself. And I almost lost my mind. My mind almost completely. And it was at that moment that I was like, I know that something's wrong. So I'm, something's wrong.

[28:27] right here, but it's just all I can do is just keep putting one foot in front of the other. I don't know. [28:33] Yeah. [28:33] What are your feelings? [28:35] a little scared, like I just feel a little scared, where I'm just like, "Oh, I've like really committed myself to this thing." And I feel like no sense of like, [28:44] I'm out or like, I don't want to do this anymore or anything like that. I have like all the commitment in the world to boys club, but yeah, [28:52] I do feel like a little... [28:54] Like, [28:56] this sort of PTSD feeling of when [29:00] As my last startup, it was a travel startup. I literally launched it in 2020. And I was like, wow, my luck sucks. [29:08] This is for listeners who don't remember 2020 year of the pandemic where there was no travel just to make sure we're really... [29:19] And I felt like a teensy bit of like, oh my gosh, did I sign myself up for something that's like going to have a two year time or horizon to like lift its head from the ramifications of the results and like downstream consequences of life. [29:34] this fallout and [29:37] feeling... [29:38] Like, I just can't really stomach that. [29:41] And [29:42] But then on the other hand, since I am so new to crypto, I'm like, [29:47] isn't this kind of what it always is? Like, isn't this showbiz? Like, isn't this what's always happening? And I think, I think this is obviously like much more, uh, [29:57] this was such a like,

[30:00] um, [30:01] what's the saying, like wolf in sheep's clothing? [30:05] Like that I think is what is throwing people off more than anything. It wasn't something that like people looked at and were like, this feels scammy, this feels wrong, this is high risk, like all of those things. It wasn't that. So then I think people feel, especially people in this space, feel deeply disillusioned by that because they couldn't spot it. And yeah. [30:22] That I think is what feels so significantly different to everybody around it. So... [30:26] Um... [30:27] And I feel really sad for people who have been like grinding in this space for like years and years and feel like, [30:35] really fatigued by [30:37] the roller coaster that is this industry. So yeah, I feel a little scared. I feel sad. I feel like really the timing of it couldn't have been weirder where like you had flown to New York [30:47] this past week for us to like roadmap boys club and be like, what are we doing? What are the plans? What's the vision? As we like, I talked about last week, like, [30:56] what are the things we want to invest in with our time and resources and team and like, [31:01] It's almost comical. [31:03] that [31:04] that [31:05] week landed on the same week that it all sort of imploded. So anyway, of course, it goes without saying this is a failure of centralization. It is not DeFi. It's not decentralized protocols at work. Ethereum is fine. It has remained fine. Things like Aave are fine. And that's by design. And so at Boys Club, we're committed to designing a future where

[31:31] things like we saw with SPF and FTX are not even possible. It's not even possible for them to happen because the system itself is, [31:39] decentralized and [31:41] But I do want to say, like, I feel... [31:45] like so immensely grateful for our community. Huge. Huge. It's the only thing keeping going to be honest. On Discord on Sunday and I was like literally crying at what people were saying and I think that it's like very easy for us to... [32:00] we get so into like we're building a business and like, I think these are healthy things. And the only way this exists is if we figure out the business here. So like, but we get really into like the commercial opportunity of boys club, like the commerce around it. Like you and I are trying to figure this out as like a legit business. And, [32:16] It was really... [32:17] Like in [32:20] having [32:22] this very public display of the [32:26] evil that humanity can bring. [32:30] it also brought this like very beautiful moment of humanizing boys club between all of these people in our community who were just talking about how much they've gotten out of being a part of, [32:40] Boys Club and what they've found in these friendships and what they've found professionally and what it's meant to them. And it was like... [32:49] really... [32:50] just really humanizing in a way that I was really grateful to have that type of perspective that like, we're all just like people just trying to do this and like trying to do our best. And there's a lot of really great people who are in this community. And so that felt really special. Hey, Natasha. Yeah, Dina. Who is this podcast sponsored by? This podcast is brought to you by Moonpay. And it's very easy to be sponsored by someone when you legitimately like them.

[33:20] and think that their product is really great. So here's the thing. At Boys Club, we are acutely aware of how cumbersome the onboarding of new people into crypto is. Even the simplest thing, like setting up a wallet or buying a token, can be so overwhelming. When you're first exploring crypto, this is basically all you're thinking about. MoonPay changes all of that. It's fast and simple and incredibly user-friendly. They make it so, so easy to jump into Web3. [33:50] collectibles. For all you crypto native people out there, you know that this is an absolute rarity. It's trusted by millions worldwide and loved by yours truly at Boys Club. Visit MoonPay.com to get started. We love you MoonPay. [34:04] Hi. Okay. [34:06] Let's get down to business. Let's do it. I think we're going to talk what's happening in our DAO this week. My main takeaway is... [34:15] I mean, we sort of spoke to this, but Dina came in town last week. [34:19] for us to roadmap. [34:20] Boys club. [34:21] Like we both take a day off work. We're going to sit, we're going to go through it all. We're going to really start to think about these things, get it down on paper. And [34:29] Then obviously all these things happened. Crypto like imploded upon itself. And it was just sort of ironic. The timing. We were like, wow. Couldn't be weirder in terms of timing. [34:41] What I sort of love about it is like, [34:44] just builders keep building. The work of the Lord continues. Like you're checking Twitter as you're also like roadmapping, like what's going to happen. And like,

[34:53] I... [34:55] It's honestly like, [34:57] Something about cryptos that is so funny to me is that like traditional entrepreneurs, so hard, the hardest, like really hard being an entrepreneur and having a startup. And then you try to do a crypto, you're a crypto entrepreneur. And like, I think you're just a masochist. Like you're just like, let's build on the edges and let's try to get product market fit in an industry that is completely unorganized. [35:16] Like, [35:18] unformed and that's what it felt like but it also like [35:22] You just keep doing the work. Like there's no other option. You're just like one foot in front of the other. And the plans have to be made. So that's what we did this week. We road mapped. What are your thoughts around it? So yeah, I'm in the Figma right now. I'm looking at sort of the plan. It's come together. It's interesting how it's come together. Basically, the overall structure is that the Dow... [35:48] sits at the center of sort of the world that we've built. It's a nucleus. Yeah. [35:52] Yeah, the Tao is the heart of it. [35:55] So to give some, a little bit of context, one of the things for listeners, one of the things we've really been thinking about is like, okay, um, [36:04] We've built this amazing community. We've built this DAO. [36:08] The whole point of the DAO is to have community, also have a space to incubate ideas and to build out like a world that we want to see within DAO. [36:19] crypto crypto, [36:20] Whatever. What three, whatever you want to call it. And as you know, they're like, there's been so...

[36:27] much to figure out in terms of the legal container for all of these things, where value is accruing across all of these different guilds and verticals that we're building within. And so [36:38] like, [36:39] we've been in full-blown experimentation mode for like the first year boys club. And now we're starting to get a sense of like... [36:46] there's some clear lanes for us to build in. [36:49] And [36:50] Now the question becomes, okay, these clear lands have revealed themselves to be areas of value and areas where we can grow. [36:58] and build out legitimate businesses that [37:01] have recurring revenue and all these things that we've talked about a lot. [37:05] when you do that, the main, then the question becomes, where does that sit? Like, [37:09] where [37:10] Does it live? Does it live within the doubt? Does it live somewhere else? And so like that was one of the main things that we were trying to like sort of sort through is like, how do we, [37:17] nurture and like, [37:19] pour gas on the fire on these areas, and then where do you do that and what team do you do that with? [37:24] Is that a fair? Great framing. Oh, thank you. Sounds really sharp this morning. Yeah. So that's generally – that was generally sort of what we're solving for. And I think just also to reiterate, like the North Star is – [37:38] We want Boys Club to be a sustainable... [37:42] thing, a sustainable business. And so we're looking for [37:46] Um, [37:47] like repeatable recurring revenue and trying to figure out like where that comes from and how we double down in the areas where we're starting to see it. So the things that are starting to, well, the, the one area in particular, which is starting to,

[38:00] definitely got a ton of energy around it and we have some [38:04] we have quite a lot of validation around, is this idea of like Web3 Media, Web3 Media Company, Web3 Native Media Company. [38:12] And so... [38:14] We are continuing to experiment in and around Web3 native media. [38:21] Up until now, it's been kind of like, [38:23] we'll just do some stuff. We'll start the podcast. And, um, [38:27] But now I think we're ready to sort of take the next step and be like, okay, what does it really look like if we wanted to build this out over the next year? Yeah. Um... [38:36] And... [38:37] So, but yeah, it's always been like, how does this... [38:43] How does like Boy Scope Media... [38:46] relate to the Tao. [38:50] And [38:51] Because I, you know... [38:53] I think-- [38:54] that [38:55] What the DAO is great at. This is what the DAO is great at. DAO is great at furthering the overall mission and vision of Boys Club. It's amazing at community engagement. It's incredible at... [39:06] Um, [39:07] Yeah, this idea of shared... [39:09] governance and it's really like a perfect container for [39:14] that part of Boys Club. Yeah. It's not a great container for moving super fast and being really agile, which is what you need to do in something that looks more like [39:25] like something that looks more like it has a product, right? Yeah. [39:29] Um...

[39:30] Because, like, just the way the decision-making process is set up in the DAO, it's just, like, it's more... [39:37] Yes. I would also say, I think that's also specific to what we're doing, which I think is very unique, which is we aren't like a protocol centered doubt. Like brand first media is different. Yeah, exactly. Like. [39:47] Brand, community first, like that's a really different... [39:51] that looks really different and I think presents a lot more [39:54] opportunities, but it also means it adds many layers of [39:57] complexity. [39:59] Yeah. [40:00] So we're like, okay, I think this needs to be its own thing. [40:06] Um... [40:06] that sits sort of like separate to the Dao or sits beside the Dao. Um, and, [40:12] to a certain degree, like that, that same feeling is starting to come up around something that would look like a product studio. That one's a little bit lesser formed. Um, we, it's, [40:19] It's not. [40:21] Yeah, it's... [40:23] it's not quite as mature in an idea and sort of how the team and the roadmap and everything, but like that also has some energy around it. [40:29] And so I think... [40:31] Basically, it's like, okay, we need to send, and I guess consulting, though that's services and sort of the relationship looks a little bit different, but... [40:40] All of it [40:42] is like, okay, so we set up these... [40:44] We incubate ideas in the DAO. [40:47] Incredible for incubating ideas and testing ideas and validating ideas. And bringing in talent. [40:51] And bringing in talent, attracting talent, and also pulling rich insight from a really interesting type of person and consumer, potentially.

[41:02] and [41:03] then as things start to get legs, [41:06] And as things start to like have some life in them, [41:08] they spin out into something that sits beside the DAO. [41:11] always having a relationship back to the Tao that looks like [41:16] either revenue share or ownership where, where doubt where the Dow sits on the cap table of the, [41:22] other entity. [41:23] Yeah. [41:24] And so basically, in an ideal state, in a perfect world, [41:29] we have sort of this constellation of things that are sitting around the DAO that are continuing to pour value back into the DAO, which then feeds the sort of community... [41:37] peace and sustainability of the DAO itself to continue doing that work, which honestly, [41:44] Kind of sounds amazing if it works. Like, it's a big swing, but I like... [41:49] I can really see that. And I think it's like, [41:52] incentive alignment and it's mutually beneficial in a way that like, [41:57] feels really exciting. Yeah. We're always thinking about how we aren't [42:02] being extractive to our community. [42:05] And... [42:06] So seeing how we can design for people [42:12] But what I've struggled with is, okay, great, I always want [42:16] What's so interesting about Boys Club is this like DAO structure, this new sense of ownership, this new way to create a world and an economy around what we're doing. [42:27] balance that against and [42:31] give back to this community that's so a part of Boys Club with deeply incentivizing teams that are working on individual projects that have legs and that should spin out and do their own thing. And what does that relationship look like? Because

[42:46] you have to have a team that feels a deep sense of ownership when you're starting anything. Anybody who's a founder or early stage team knows [42:55] like the work that goes into validating something and then taking it from validation to like what's next. And so that's been like a real tension for us. It's like, what does that look like and how do we design for something that [43:08] does right by our community that keeps this thing not only like alive, like we're not, but like an interesting business in and of itself, the DAO. And I think we've gotten to something that does both and, [43:22] It all sort of like, there's some things that have to work. There's definitely some experimentation that will continue to happen. But I feel like we made some really good progress in terms of like... [43:32] not only how does web through media like feed into the Dow, but how do we build like a constellation of entities that have this very, [43:42] Like, [43:43] like relationship, cyclical relationship with one another. That's, um, is the plan. That is the plan. [43:51] all right okay okay it's draft tweet time okay oh my god mine suck okay um [44:07] At Netflix, hi, I'd like to report a crime. The finale of Friday Night Lights season two is not on the app. [44:14] *laughter* [44:15] Oh my God. That's so funny. Why didn't you tweet that? That's hilarious. It wasn't on the app. I'll tweet it now. That is a crime. That's an actual crime. So I've been watching Friday Night Lights. Yeah, I know. For everyone who doesn't know.

[44:30] and it's my first time watching Friday Night Lights. And here's my routine. I do a 30-minute... [44:37] Incline walk on the treadmill. Mm-hmm. [44:40] 30 minutes. [44:41] 12, 3.30, right? 12, 3.30, yeah. 12 incline, 30 minutes, 3 speed. And while I'm doing that, I watch my shows. [44:51] And so I'm, you know, I'm so in, so in, so in. And I get to the end of season two. [44:57] It's the finale. Huge. Huge finale. Huge finale. It's not on the app. [45:03] And so... [45:04] It's a crime. It is a crime. [45:06] So did you go, I would honestly, I'd be like in a place where I would be willing to go purchase it on like prime video. That's what, that's what Dave said. Um, I was. [45:15] like on the treadmill. So I just moved on to season three, episode one, but like that sucks. I did. I did. I did. Yeah. Okay. I'd like to report a crime. That's horrible. Wow. The like artists that created that show would be so, so you just watched it like previously on and got caught up. Oh, ew. I can't even handle that. I know. Oh my gosh. Wow. That's chaos. That is a chaotic energy. Tell me about yours. Mine sucks. You guys already, you know this one, [45:45] babes. [45:46] And basically it's a town where we pull our resources. Clean up the streets. Clean up the streets. [45:51] That's what this is about. This came from a text thread that I had with two of my friends who live in Williamsburg. And one sent me this article that was like budget approval for sanitation. And it was like $14 million approved for sanitation in New York City. And she was like, finally. And I was like, $14 million? What are they going to do? They're not going to be able to do anything with $14 million. And then my other friend wrote and she was like, I would personally give to this cause. And I was like, babe, you do. That's called taxes.

[46:21] Yeah. [46:22] so that's it [46:24] um i love it i think it's it has to be like sanitation dow sanitation yeah trash is tough trash trash is tough um [46:34] And also, you tweet that and someone... [46:36] Someone quote tweets you and says, the Silicon Valley assholes have invented. Exactly. Congratulations. [46:44] Okay.